actually i think they're meeting with vice president biden. then governors will be meeting with some of the congressional leadership, as well. but you guys are watching this, we know this is drama and theater. do you think a deal gets struck at the end of the day? >> i do. i have to say, i still think we'll get a last minute deal. i just cannot imagine that congress will allow to us go over the cliff. so i think the ramifications for the economy are too significant. i think we're watching whatever you want to call it, all of the politics playing out, but i still think in the end we'll get a last minute deal. >> i agree. and i think even though the sides are far apart, you have things on the table now. so you can say you're here at 800, 1.6, you kind of -- it gets you somewhere close. somebody will try to say 1.3 versus 1.1, but if you see publicly what they're stating and hopefully privately other things are going on, but it will get done, but it will be very slow. >> john boehner with the proposal he put on the table, i did see commentary fro